Death Experience' Defined By Carbon Dioxide

Death Experience' Defined By Carbon Dioxide

April 7, 2010
Individuals who have "near-demise experiences," akin to flashing lights, emotions of peace and joy and divine encounters before they pull back from the brink might merely have raised levels of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the blood, a examine suggests.
Close to-demise experiences (NDEs) are reported by between eleven and 23 % of survivors of heart attacks, based on previous research.
But what causes NDEs is strongly debated. Some pin the mechanisms on physical or psychological causes, while others see a transcendental drive.
Researchers in Slovenia, reporting on Thursday in a peer-reviewed journal, Critical Care , investigated 52 consecutive instances of coronary heart assaults in three giant hospitals.
The patients' average age was fifty three years. Forty-two of them have been males.
Eleven patients had NDEs, however there was no common hyperlink between these cases by way of age, sex, level of training, religious perception, concern of death, time to restoration or the drugs that have been administered to resuscitate them.
As a substitute, a typical affiliation was excessive ranges of CO2 in the blood and, to a lesser degree, of potassium
Additional work is needed to substantiate the findings among a bigger pattern of patients, say the authors, led by Zalika Klemenc-Ketis of the University of Maribor.
Having an NDE can be a life-changing expertise, so understanding its causes is important for heart-attack survivors, they are saying.
Extra information: The effect of carbon dioxide on near-death experiences in out-of-hospital cardiac arrest survivors: a prospective observational study, Zalika Klemenc-Ketis, Janko Kersnik and Stefek Grmec, Critical Care (in press), /
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seventy two comments
God works in mysterious methods. Haha just kidding.
It will be attention-grabbing to have the ability to induce a NDE although...
2.three / 5 (three) Apr 07, 2010
Humorous how the NDE/OOBE/Lucid Dream/Astral Projection is a symptom of CO2 within the blood.. and not vice versa.
Bloody scientists :P
2.2 / 5 (10) Apr 07, 2010
How quite simple biology is! Who knew it was simply extra AGW carbon dioxide inflicting all the world's problems and unusual psychological experiences.
3.3 / 5 (6) Apr 07, 2010
everytime i'm going to the steam bath and steam myself too much, i feel like i am dizzy and going to move out. but i don't. when this occurs. i close my eyes. and everytime i do, i see an enormous ball of light in my visual view that appears a bit tunnelish a bit 3d. seems like a constant visual area anomoly in my particular experience.
3.6 / 5 (10) Apr 07, 2010
A number of years in the past, some researchers "proved" that NDEs had been caused by electical stimulation of a primitive a part of the mind inflicting hullicinations. Unusual that everyone hullucinates precisely the identical factor.
3.three / 5 (eight) Apr 07, 2010
So, of the the entire parameters to be measured, and I am positive they measured every single one in all them to an precisely exact degree, the CO2 degree was the widespread issue. I'm certain they didn't miss anything.
3.eight / 5 (5) Apr 07, 2010
Just a few years in the past, some researchers "proved" that NDEs have been caused by electical stimulation of a primitive part of the mind inflicting hullicinations. Strange that everybody hullucinates precisely the same factor.
There was an interview of a gentleman who wrote a book on the subject, and I can't for the lifetime of me remember what his name is or the guide.
But, during the interview, this query was posed to him about why the tunnel of light, and he said the prevailing theory is that sporadic electric impulses from the brain typically travel up the visual nerve and trigger a bright flashing impact. They discovered this throughout a mind-surgical procedure when the affected person wasn't asleep.
4 / 5 (4) Apr 07, 2010
I'm wondering, has anyone bothered to take a look at the experiences reported by people who have almost died-but from completely different causes? Say, comparing someone who was oxygen-disadvantaged for whatever cause with someone else who...um...Hm...What number of methods are there to kill someone that don't contain a construct-up of CO2 as at the very least one of the unwanted effects?
2.7 / 5 (15) Apr 07, 2010
I can only relate my NDE. I noticed the sunshine, the information, the life review...that was attention-grabbing, however most of all...I noticed myself in the emergency room being treated by the very same physician that actually handled me when i acquired to the emergency room...I didn't know that a carbon dioxide construct - up might do all that...let me see into the emergency room visit with the identical doctor. I also saw my future life, and what I needed to accomplish earlier than my precise checkout time...I'm now residing the life I noticed during my NDE...and sure...I'm on a mission from God...
three / 5 (8) Apr 08, 2010
So does oxygen cause us to fall in love just because we're respiratory it in when it happens? Or is the pleasure of music attributable to carbon-di-oxide as a result of we're respiratory it out as we hear? Transcendence takes place in the universe. The universe is made up of chemical substances. We're a part of the universe, so chemical substances are what we're fabricated from too. Obviously, there are lots of chemical processes going down at loss of life.. in any case, the body is breaking down. However the truth that those processes are current does not automatically imply that they're causing the transcendent experience. If it was just a chemical reaction, the NDE would take on a different format for every individual particular person in keeping with their beliefs. However as the report says, these in the examine had no frequent religious belief, but all of them had the same experience.
2.9 / 5 (eleven) Apr 08, 2010
Ishtar: On the contrary. If it was "just" the chemical response, then all of them would've comparable experience (as they do). If it - alternatively - was dependent on their believes, it will differ (according to their perception). I don't perceive how one can give you reverse result.
missionfromGod: Simply take your pills and your mission some place else, please.
In my view it's a combination of extra factors than simply CO2, nevertheless it seems like a attainable culprit. It's a sensitive matter for a lot of transcendence worshipers, so count on anger to rage.
2.three / 5 (9) Apr 08, 2010
Smartk8, perhaps it could help if I explained that, in my expertise, spiritual transcendence will not be the identical as faith. Spiritual transcendence ends where religion begins. Non secular transcendence is a sensible experience which, when it's absent, becomes ossified into totally different methods of belief, religion, rules and rituals that make up totally different religions. But should you go back to the instances earlier than the main religions of at present, you may find that the experience of transcendence was widespread to the shamans of varied indigenous tribes throughout the world. One of the roles of the shaman is to behave as a pyschopomp, that's to carry the soul of the deceased on to the subsequent world. In an effort to do this, they journey down that very same tunnel with none evident enhance in their carbon dioxide levels. I think you also needs to show respect to those, like "missionfromGod", who've had the NDE experience, otherwise 'anger will rage' as you say, but it'll have been brought on by your actions.
3.5 / 5 (eleven) Apr 08, 2010
Ishtar: First of all, I'm member of that branch of a-mountaineers, who don't assume that the irrational belief programs deserve respect. As the quote says "Respect is earned, not demanded". I don't suppose there's a difference between transcendence and faith. If a non secular man has such expertise, it was a god wherein he believes in. If it was a religious transcendence believer, it was a proof of oneness with universe. If it was me, it was a temporal lobe epilepsy outbreak. Transcendence and faith (which is IMO parasitizing on transcendence) both got here from the identical supply. It's primarily based on idea, that there MUST be something more to this reality than it seems. Which of course shouldn't be wanted. All it takes is a modified state of the mind (the basis of transcendence), however those are simply that, a personally changed mind function, the truth outside is just because it was before.
2 / 5 (9) Apr 08, 2010
I'm afraid you are just displaying your ignorance, SmartK8. The experience of transcendence is as actual as standing underneath the solar and experiencing heat and light. It is not an idea. This transcendence was experienced by man lengthy earlier than modern day religions came alongside. The experience is repeatable and falsifiable. We all know this from three sources: 1.Anthropologists' interviews with shamans worldwide at the end of the nineteenth century, earlier than the age of mass communications and transportation, who all reported the same expertise (see Mircae Eliade). 2. Indigenous tribes today ~ from Scandinavia and South America to Africa and India ~ who inform anthropologists that they they usually forebears have had this same expertise going back 1000's of years. 3. Current day experiences of shamans. All report the identical practical expertise. And I believe that each one human beings are deserving of respect, whether or not their sensible experiences of life differ to your individual. Anything else is ignorant bigotry.
three.5 / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
Doesn't explain documented NDE circumstances where people have progressed past full cardiac arrest to clinically useless (no coronary heart beat, interruption of blood to the mind, no electrical brain operate) and report cogent experiences or, for that matter, have the brain processes necessary to understand a cogent expertise. It doesn't clarify how such a person could have perceptual/cognitive processes essential to expertise and recall even a disjointed/delusional experience.
Given the recorded NDEs during which the individual is known to have a whole cessation of mind operate, yet then report coherent experiences, it's tough to see how the mechanisms effected by elevated CO2 would function in a unified state to provide coherent and memorisable experiences, given the other trauma and deficits (blood circulate, electrical activity).
Except the assertion here is that varied areas of the brain are capable of operate in a unified method without sustenance and measurable mind activity.
Also, as hinted at above:
Something that causes a disruption to blood movement goes to trigger extra O2 to be consumed from the blood-borne supply, with a corresponding transfer of CO2 into the blood.
Stands to cause that the only explanation of raised CO2 ranges is that the conventional processes of the rest of the body will attempt to continue, although the blood provide is disrupted leading to a rise in CO2.
As to a reason for the tunnel and visions, etc., there is no real stable hyperlink. Nonetheless, it's noted that exposure to severely elevated CO2 levels will lead to "fogginess" of thoughts (i.e. lack of ability to suppose clearly or focus properly) and delrium and then unconciousness. Sorta the alternative of the "readability of thought and expertise" reported by experiencers, particularly in view of ceased mind function.
three.2 / 5 (9) Apr 08, 2010
I suppose, I do not deserve your respect being referred to as ignorant. Anyway, you have to tell apart between respect for a fellow being, and for his or her ideas. While I feel a lot of the humans ought to be treated with respect, I don't suppose that of a lot of their ideas. We don't respect kid's opinion on the results of math train. People can change the way their mind works, however modified perception != seeing something special. A human brain is a pattern seeker. Individuals are trying to seek meaning within the desires, in the shadows or while changing their mind's function. Shamans are using all kinds of mind altering substances, and indeed their brain is changed. Individuals thought it was a divine state, whereas it's just a pathologic one. But do not take me fallacious, I'm not right here to determine what way of life is the most effective. I am simply stating, that till you do it upon yourself it's okay. But those people are spreading these concepts as if they're details, arguing that some guru did it tons of years in the past.
four.2 / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
Does not clarify documented NDE instances where individuals have progressed previous complete cardiac arrest to clinically lifeless (no coronary heart beat, interruption of blood to the brain, no electrical brain operate) and report cogent experiences
Is there any credible source for that declare?
four.4 / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
Your body is a highly complicated system, even the next analogy is a gross oversimplification.
Take your automobile. Elements of it fail occasionally and every of us has most likely owned a automobile that we stated was "unkillable". Truth is, very like any advanced systemic machine, a automobile doesn't terminally fail immediately. It wears down, abruptly the window lever won't work, the door handle will break, a tire goes bald, the engine runs funny, then it simply stops turning on. Your physique is the same approach. We put on down, our inner sensors begin to fail and we slowly die. While you're "terminally useless" and never comming again components of you are still alive.
Medical analysis has been performed on people who have lately died and docs still discover nerve impulse, twitching, in some instances minor increased brain activity.
NDE's are the body's way of gracefully shutting down. Fact is, by the point you could have an NDE, you're dead, or have been lifeless, and if you're fortunate, you come again.
2 / 5 (9) Apr 08, 2010
SmartK8, again you present that you simply're not so sensible at all. Most shamans do not go into the shamanic state or journey by taking any type of pyschotropic substance (though probably people who do get essentially the most press). Most shamans go into that state (known to scientists because the "theta state") by the beat of a drum. Scientists have discovered that a drum beat of between four and seven per second will produce the theta state. In that theta state, shamans journey via the same tunnel reported by those who experience NDEs, into different dimensions. You could liken the tunnel to the string of string idea, that connects the different dimensions.
I assume, I do not deserve your respect being referred to as ignorant. Anyway, you've to distinguish between respect for a fellow being, and for his or her concepts.
You have been rude personally to a fellow being, i.e. missionfromgod ~ implying that he was on medication. That is why you don't deserve respect...
three / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
Doesn't clarify documented NDE instances the place people have progressed previous complete cardiac arrest to clinically useless (no coronary heart beat, interruption of blood to the brain, no electrical brain perform) and report cogent experiences
Is there any credible supply for that declare?
I believe considered one of you need to hold your breath together with your finger in an electrical socket and see what occurs.
Lets face it....you may't have a pseudo-scientific dialogue with a worldwide audience that refuses to depart religion out of the discussion...
Sure, we all have our belief systems to keep us going, but we need to adapt our non secular beliefs to the info of life...or nuke the crap out of each other. Both manner, I'm happy with it...
2 / 5 (four) Apr 08, 2010
I've to be honest, I've not read every put up here. However there are some people commenting right here who have tarred the OOBE expertise with the same hocus pocus that surrounds faith.
If this can be a scientific discussion board, then shouldn't we observe phenomenon with a important eye?
Provided that humans only have the capacity to percieve 3 dimensional house and a linear view of the 4th dimension (t), why wouldn't it not be acceptable to posit that there are other dimensions that we don't perceive how you can view?
Ishtar, your "temperal lobe epilepsy" attack would possibly just be the physical representation of something happening that our scientific devices can not detect.
I am not spiritual, nevertheless I do imagine that the human race is still very primative. Anything that can not be proven by our 'current' know-how, instantly becomes fictional balony.. only to be confirmed at a later date when we know how. Who would have believed x-rays existed and may very well be used to see INSIDE somebody, with out reducing them up?
three.9 / 5 (7) Apr 08, 2010
You're mixing a mumbo-jumbo coctail. I'll explain you the way it goes. You just took few presently unexplained phenomenas. One in drugs, one in theoretical physics, one drop of your own fantasy, and made a closing shake. You simply related almost unconnectable, supplied no proof, and you're expecting from me what ? Even if the shamans (not you) actually travelled in this state, and it appeared like a tunnel (not you solely imagining it to be). It would nonetheless makes not sense to liken it to a string in a string principle (m-idea). Which describes the other dimensions to be only one Planck constant thick, not a lot area for an open mind to squeeze via. But IF all of those have been by some means true, it does not suggest that what the shaman saw there was of any importance. It was simply his brain distorted. About respect: Ok, I did not really puzzled why I am not getting respect, however I moderately wondered that you simply made identical to me. I guess you do not deserve your personal respect in this logic, very attention-grabbing.
2 / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
Dying will come to all of us... not just to scientists. And what happens after that, science has not yet been capable of explain. Therefore, the discussion of NDEs is a reputable one for anybody who has or is likely to experience dying (aka everybody presently respiration) wherever that discussion is taking place. In addition, the repeatability of the experiences of shamans (which, by the way, is nothing like temporal lobe epilepsy) would make shamanism a authentic arena of inquiry for even a science audience.
1.eight / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
Even if the shamans (not you) actually travelled in this state, and it looked like a tunnel (not you only imagining it to be). It can still makes not sense to liken it to a string in a string principle (m-principle). Which describes the opposite dimensions to be just one Planck fixed thick, not a lot house for an open mind to squeeze via.
Kate, the shaman would not journey bodily down the 'tunnel' which will be likened, I mentioned, to the string of String Concept in that it connects dimensions. The phrase I used was 'liken'. I was just trying to offer you an thought of the way it works. So it's not a query of compressing "an open thoughts" through it. It's not his bodily body that travels down the tunnel, however what the ancient Egyptians used to name the 'ka' body, or else it may very well be generally known as the etheric body. Anyway, whatever we name it, it's something else that science has but to meet up with, lol! Hope that helps.. but I've a sense it won't. :-(
3.7 / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
I agree, we are able to be taught more about totally different states of human mind. Even from the shamans in addition to LSD trippers, however I would not go that far to imply that it has something to do with the rest than that particular person's brain (or presumably a complete body). Unexplained doesn't suggest that something that anyone suggests is an equal possibility. The rationale people are apprehensive to die is that they need to expertise their life (productive a part of life) perpetually, but there's not one single faith or transcendent theory that leaves you with that. Either it's not within the reality, or it is not you, or you don't remember anything. The Occam's razor leaves us with 'nothing is after dying'. It might not be true, but for the sake of sanity, I hope it's, but that's just me.
1.three / 5 (6) Apr 08, 2010
The explanation persons are worried to die is that they want to expertise their life (productive part of life) ceaselessly, but there's not one single faith or transcendent theory that leaves you with that.
On the contrary..
When you keep in mind, Kate, I defined earlier that the shaman acts as a psychopomp in that he carries the spirit or soul of the deceased on to their next destination or next life. In different phrases, the new life after the death of this one. It's just the physique that dies, and it's shrugged off at 'demise' identical to an outdated winter overcoat when Spring arrives.
3.eight / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
Kate, the shaman does not journey bodily down the 'tunnel' which might be likened...
Still you don't know that, it is just in their brains, there is not any proof of traveling somewhere. It is nothing to meet up with. Science is studying the results, which a trans state might have on an individual, but if I took an LSD and flown to a distinct universe, everyone would simply know, that it was the chemical state of my mind, and not an actual thing. If shamans can do that with out the LSD, it's cheaper, no argument there, but nonetheless it is simply their mind. Why would you suppose otherwise ? Or fairly, why would you wish to consider otherwise ?
four.6 / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
I believe certainly one of you need to maintain your breath along with your finger in an electrical socket and see what happens.
Achieved that when I was 12 (by accident). An unforgettable experience, but nothing divine - no angels, no music, simply muscle mass out of control. :)
5 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2010
I feel one of you need to maintain your breath with your finger in an electrical socket and see what happens.
Performed that when I was 12 (by accident). An unforgettable experience, however nothing divine - no angels, no music, simply muscle groups out of control. :)
a hundred and ten or 220?
I did it with 220 when I used to be a child (10) and oh boy was that a fun lesson.
Properly there are two solutions to that, Kate.
The primary is that all shamans report the identical or related phenonomen and have finished for hundreds of years. They report that there are three worlds, and never simply this one we're in now. There may be also an Higher World and a Decrease World, and their descriptions of those worlds tally, regardless that one shaman might have been in Siberia and the other in South America, and long earlier than the days of mass communications and transport. This is what I mean by repeatability.
But secondly, I don't have to consider or not consider them. I am a shaman myself.
4.5 / 5 (4) Apr 08, 2010
The primary is that every one shamans report the identical or similar phenonomen and have accomplished for 1000's of years. They report that there are three worlds, and never just this one we're in now. There's also an Upper World and a Lower World, and their descriptions of these worlds tally, regardless that one may have been in Siberia and one other in South America lengthy before the days of mass communications and transport. This is what I imply by repeatability.
Because all of man and his society didn't originate in a single place, with a single tradition, that persisted in some efforts of bringing it's basic tennets of sun worship and burial of the dead......
Secondly, most cultures don't imagine there are three worlds. Some think there are thousands, some think there are however 2. You're erroneously assuming that your theological background is analogous or the same to the small pieces you keep in mind from prior readings or teachings of different cultures.
It's called projection, and it is a textbook case.
5 / 5 (3) Apr 08, 2010
Carried out that when I used to be 12 (by chance). An unforgettable expertise, but nothing divine - no angels, no music, just muscle tissue uncontrolled. :)
a hundred and ten or 220?
I did it with 220 when I used to be a child (10) and oh boy was that a enjoyable lesson.
220 - welcome to the club :)
1.3 / 5 (12) Apr 08, 2010
Effectively, the traditional Jewish faith initially had but two ranges to actuality, this one and the afterlife, which was the same for everyone, and slightly uninteresting and colorless. Later Jews and Christians innovated Heaven, an idea they stole from the Greek Elysian fields, cause who does not wish to really feel superior to everybody else after they die? Soon, however, they realized that very wealthy people ought to be able to pay their approach out of Hell, in order that they invented Purgatory. Finally, as a gesture to charity, they came up with Limbo, a spot even more boring that the unique afterlife, but not so bad as Purgatory or Hell, where the unbaptized infants and saint-like pagans can go. Recently, they dropped Limbo, trigger who needs it actually, if you've received Purgatory.
1.9 / 5 (12) Apr 08, 2010
Oh, and Ishy, your theta state is just a type of brain wave pattern opposed to the alpha, beta and delta wave patterns. Changes in these patterns are routinely correlated with modifications in physical activity-level, rest, reported sense of effectively-being, perceptual consciousness, and varied sorts of emotions and emotions. Nothing in that analysis suggests any connection to something supernatural or additional-dimensional. And the closest thing we've got to a Ka-physique is our personal mental illustration of ourselves, rather like Neo's physique in the Matrix, what they referred to as a "residual self-image." It is the identical body you've acquired once you dream. And desires are just brains organizing data and preparing for its subsequent bout with reality.
1.eight / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
Secondly, most cultures don't believe there are 3 worlds....You are erroneously assuming that your theological background is similar or the identical to the small items you remember from prior readings or teachings of different cultures.
It's called projection, and this can be a textbook case.
Sorry no.. it is known as anthropological research. For just one example, I can refer you to: the 100s of interviews carried out with shamans on the flip of 19th century which have been collated by the late Professor of the Religious Historical past at Harvard, Mircae Eliade in his ebook: Shamanism. Archaic Strategies of Ecstasy. However there's countless more scientific data of this sort, should you care to look.... almost as a lot as there's sick-based opinion from ignoramuses (or should that be ignoramusi?).
I know the theta state is a brain wave pattern...just as I know the shamanic journey takes place by altering those waves by a drum beat. There's nothing magical or supernatural about it. It's very pure.
2.2 / 5 (thirteen) Apr 08, 2010
However there's additionally no evidence that what's reported as being skilled when one's mind waves have been induced into a theta state, and even after they find themselves in such a state naturally, is actual. Since human brains are all basically wired up the identical way, it will be extra stunning in the event that they reported differing experiences when presented with such comparable, and somewhat generalized simulation. Even if your evidence is sound, which it's not, since you have to cherry-pick your ancient cultures to obtain the metaphysical agreement you search, it is just proof of the similarity of human brain operate, not of the metaphysical structure of actuality.
4 / 5 (5) Apr 08, 2010
so ishtar what you are saying is that the theta state is reached by primarily aligning your mind waves to that of a drumbeat four-7 beats/sec..
what if these NDEs are simply what the mind experiences when it reaches that very same mind wave? that mighthow they each see primarily the same factor (tunnel, gentle, and so forth.)
3.eight / 5 (four) Apr 08, 2010
NDE's are additionally explained by social cues and pressures, suggestibility and peer pressure creates expectations and group identities. Along with the layered advanced brain, it is rather probably that what is remembered later as an NDE is actually nothing of what was actually skilled, however is radically modified to meet expectations, each personal and sociological.
So you're a shaman, too, ishtar? What stage? A pal of mine is level 80 now and is spec'd elemental. (Yes, I'm making enjoyable of you because you're ridiculous)
four.5 / 5 (four) Apr 08, 2010
Sorry no.. it is known as anthropological analysis. For only one example, I can refer you to: the 100s of interviews carried out with shamans at the turn of 19th century which had been collated by the late Professor of the Non secular History at Harvard, Mircae Eliade in his ebook: Shamanism. Archaic Strategies of Ecstasy.
Eliade insisted that each one human beings are religous within that ebook, sure you're not the only theological reader on here. Eliade spoke solely of indo-american and indo european shamanism and druidism, not of different religous manifestations inside that e book so once more you're merely projecting your qualitative opinion upon a quantitative statement.
But there's countless more scientific information of this sort, if you care to look....
Sure, I've seen the "crystal links" website.
nearly as much as there's sick-based opinion from ignoramuses (or ought to that be ignoramusi?).
Spoken like a true follower of shamanism.....
2.5 / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2010
There was a study that pointed to the chemical DMT as the culprit for close to demise and "transcendent" experiences. It was carried out by Rick Strassman at the College of New Mexico's College of Medication. He mentioned that the chemical is produced within the brain by the pineal gland. He had a principle that when folks had NDEs or simply plain transcendent experiences it was when the pineal gland produced an abundance of the chemical. I don't know whether or not he proved it but it does sound like a logical concept that the same chemical that produces our dreams is also chargeable for NDE's and religious experiences.There was a complete documentary about it however they pointed to the pineal gland as the non secular "third eye" and in addition implied that it was the gate to the world of the lifeless. now i do not know any of that stuff but the general thought about DMT being answerable for mystical visions looks as if a stable notion. F
2 / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2010
It simply seems to be more logical that a hallucinogenic chemical like DMT can be accountable for this stuff quite than carbon dioxide.
not rated yet Apr 08, 2010
Why would it be more logical? The shortage of oxygen and the abundance of CO2 into the mind at the time of loss of life would trigger fast degradation of the optical cortex. Because the hemisphere's begin to obtain random firing from the frontal lobe they would hearth off random unlinked reminiscences.
Of course it's a moderately complex system, and when you add in extra releases of chemical compounds while all of that is happening (including adrenalin) then the results are going to be pretty spectacular.
Couple within the sociological components that I discussed above and you've got some great stories that seem to have underlying similarities, largely as a result of want for acceptance.
four.5 / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2010
It simply seems to be extra logical that a hallucinogenic chemical like DMT would be accountable for these things quite than carbon dioxide.
CO2 over 5000ppm is a hallucinogenic for people attributable to asphyxia.
Couple within the sociological factors that I discussed above and you've got some great tales that seem to have underlying similarities, largely because of the want for acceptance.
Or underlying similarities as a result of shared genetic precedent.
sick-founded opinion from ignoramuses (or should that be ignoramusi?)
I do not use "ignoramus" in any respect because it's (a really old) unhealthy utilization of Latin. It just means "we do not know". There isn't a grammatical type "ignoramusi".
"Ignorant"/"ignorants" is to be most well-liked.
four / 5 (2) Apr 08, 2010
I might be blissful to volunteer to be uncovered to high ranges of CO2 to see what happens. Put me in an MRI and turn on the fuel. Are we talking about science right here, or superstition? Oh, and for those who will attempt to defend their beliefs as "not superstition", I have some questions for you. Is it possible for somebody to completely imagine something that isn't true? In that case, how are you going to inform if your personal belief is true or not? Or do you consider, incredibly, that all beliefs are true? If so, what is your definition of true? Feel free to have your individual opinion, however simply know how manipulative and divisive it is whenever you imagine in supernatural forces to clarify your private experiences. Nobody else can share that with you and people are prone to believe you for normal psychological causes, so in essence you are coercing folks into sharing your beliefs. I've had transcendent experiences, they changed my life, I often believed it was evidence for some larger power, but I additionally comprehend it was brain malfunction
5 / 5 (three) Apr 08, 2010
Is it doable for someone to fully believe something that isn't true?
Yes, happens all the time and to everybody.
In that case, how can you inform if your individual belief is true or not?
Is dependent upon what the assumption is. Usually logical deduction and quantitative commentary.
Or do you believe, incredibly, that every one beliefs are true? In that case, what is your definition of true?
I lumped these questions together as a result of they're nonsensical. If one thing is true then it'll manifest its actuality upon statement and be irrefutable by requirements of logic.
1 / 5 (1) Apr 08, 2010
A number of years in the past, some researchers "proved" that NDEs had been caused by electical stimulation of a primitive part of the mind inflicting hullicinations. Strange that everybody hullucinates exactly the identical factor.
Not everyone hallucinates the identical thing. My thought for the tunnel of light some people see for this, is simply the actual fact of mental regression. Th very very first thing you noticed if you got here out was a brilliant ass tunnel of sunshine. I determine a psychological regression can simply produce this.
As an illustration, when my grandfather was dying, he started speaking with folks whom were lengthy lifeless, but as a child would discuss to an adult, then later on, he was "speaking" along with his mother, in fluent german none the much less (which he always insisted he didn't know methods to speak)...he acknowledged his age throughout that dialog with the air as four years outdated...earlier on in the day he thought I used to be 10 years outdated once more..was telling me to be an excellent boy and we might go hunting and fishing..a dialog we did have when I was10
God works in mysterious methods. Haha just kidding.
It would be interesting to be able to induce a NDE although...
Isnt that how David Carradine died?
And I believe that each one human beings are deserving of respect, whether or not their sensible experiences of life differ to your own. Anything else is ignorant bigotry.
Yeah you just dont wish to get flamed. Didnt work did it?
The first is that each one shamans report the same or related phenonomen and have accomplished for 1000's of years.
Shamans need to make a dwelling too, dont they?
As an example, when my grandfather was dying, he began speaking with folks whom were long lifeless, however as a toddler would discuss to an adult, then afterward, he was "speaking" together with his mother, in fluent german
Its known as hallucinating. How are you aware it was fluent german or simply somebodys Wunschtraum of the afterlife?
God works in mysterious methods. Haha simply kidding.
It would be interesting to have the ability to induce a NDE although...
Isnt that how David Carradine died?
And I believe that every one human beings are deserving of respect, whether or not their sensible experiences of life differ to your individual. The rest is ignorant bigotry.
Yeah you just dont need to get flamed. Didnt work did it?
The primary is that every one shamans report the same or similar phenonomen and have achieved for thousands of years.
Shamans need to make a living too, dont they?
For example, when my grandfather was dying, he began speaking with individuals whom were lengthy lifeless, but as a baby would discuss to an grownup, then afterward, he was "talking" together with his mother, in fluent german
Such as you say, its called hallucinating. No extrasensory claims need be invoked. How are you aware it was fluent german or just somebodys Wunschtraum of the afterlife?
-Thats higher.
5 / 5 (3) Apr 09, 2010
And I believe that all human beings are deserving of respect, whether or not or not their sensible experiences of life differ to your individual. Anything is ignorant bigotry.
So that you respect Hitler, Stalin, Bismarck, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Edi Amin, and so on.
What a foolish factor to say. Respect is earned not given freely. To hand it out like halloween sweet devalues the concept.
For example, when my grandfather was dying, he began talking with people whom had been lengthy dead, however as a child would discuss to an adult, then afterward, he was "talking" with his mom, in fluent german
Anecdotal and unimaginable to prove so we will not really use this as any sort of proof, nonetheless, I might recommend that the higher features of his brain had been regressively shutting down, as is expected. All that was left had been recollections and muscle management on a replay cycle, very like AS.
1 / 5 (2) Apr 09, 2010
Its called hallucinating. How have you learnt it was fluent german or just somebodys Wunschtraum of the afterlife?
Because half my family knows German.....so yea, pretty straightforward to inform its german when they might understand him....
5 / 5 (1) Apr 09, 2010
As a result of half my household is aware of German.....so yea, pretty straightforward to inform its german when they might perceive him....
Which lends additional creedence to his having AS or another degenerative neural symptoms and having zero to do with any form of spirituality.
three.6 / 5 (5) Apr 09, 2010
Which lends additional creedence to his having AS or one other degenerative neural signs and having zero to do with any form of spirituality.
Oh I COMPELTELY agree. Its simple psychological degradation. I figure the memory facilities are starting to die newest to oldest, and you find yourself seeing the very first thing your thoughts remembers (although not consiously remembers)...the delivery canal...a vibrant gentle on the end of the tunnel.
Makes far more sense than going to the imaginary lands of heaven or hell.
Non secular experiences cannot be confirmed or falsified
for it cannot be measured by our present state of actuality/existence.
Who's to say that we on earth are equiped to know, and perceive every little thing, we can solely measure what we will see, interpret as humans with bodily human brains, human eyes and by gear made by us.
Take into consideration how small a person is compared to the observable universe.
Now take the scale of a human mind and examine that up with the universe.
Measurement comparability is despicaple to say the least.
We can't know the whole lot on this existence.
If something as nice because the universe got here into existance, i beleive something else might be occurring too after this life.
There's absolutely no means that i might be convinced that there is not an existence after this life. Considering the greatness of what's on the market!
And that's only from what we are able to see and perceive as mere humans.
1 / 5 (1) Apr 10, 2010
How do you explain an individual having an NDE or OBE observing issues in others parts of the hospital and making an accurate account on conservations that passed off. Or a person that was clinically dead for over an half-hour accurately describing the details of the docs working on them. I don't think hallucinations can account for this.
Those who don't consider in an afterlife will all the time discover a reason what causes an NDE or OBE, its simply human nature to suppose this manner.
3.7 / 5 (three) Apr 10, 2010
From all accounts, NDEs and OBEs are two completely different animals. Neither one, nevertheless, is conclusive proof of an afterlife.
What many here appear to be missing is that the people who experienced these NDEs were ALL at or under some CO2 focus threshold, with no heartbeat/bloodflow.
Mind chemistry begins to change nearly as quickly as blood movement ceases. After this apparent threshold is crossed, you might be LIFELESS, and more or less irreversible chemical processes continue till they reach the vitality barrier past which they cannot be sustained.
The pertinent query right here is: at what level during this process do these so-known as NDE "reminiscences" or "experiences" truly take place? For all we all know, they're generated mere picoseconds after heartbeat stops. They could even be a harm management mechanism
Its obvious that there's a contextual-if not 100% clear causal- hyperlink right here, however to quote any of this as proof of an afterlife is the worst sort of wishful, projective, pondering.
5 / 5 (1) Apr 10, 2010
the delusions may be patterns in the brain created just earlier than dying, surviving the brain lifeless state in enough order to be recalled after the individual is reawakened and regains consiciousness.
Doesn't explain documented NDE instances where individuals have progressed previous full cardiac arrest to clinically useless (no coronary heart beat, interruption of blood to the mind, no electrical brain perform) and report cogent experiences or, for that matter, have the mind processes essential to perceive a cogent experience. It doesn't explain how such an individual could have perceptual/cognitive processes necessary to expertise and recall even a disjointed/delusional expertise.
Given the recorded NDEs through which the person is known to have an entire cessation of mind function\ /blockquote
four.5 / 5 (2) Apr 11, 2010
To all those that are arguing for a non secular interpretation of NDE:
Suppose that this research is continued, and we discover that by artificially changing blood chemistry, maybe electrically stimulating certain parts of the mind, etc. we can produce an NDE in someone who's decidedly not dying. We then induce these NDEs and punctiliously monitor brain activations and physique state and document their experiences, and from this info we discover explanations of exactly why such experiences occur (e.g. a specific widespread sample of activation within the visible cortex produces a tunnel-like white light).
On this scenario, would you modify your opinion that it is supernatural? As a result of on the finish of the day, this is able to be a best case situation for scientific research. To my thoughts, such a physical rationalization would show that NDEs are in actual fact decidedly natural. However if you happen to would nonetheless insist that they are supernatural in nature, then there's actually no point in arguing about it.
1 / 5 (5) Apr 11, 2010
Maybe we are supposed to expertise NDE's by this modified state of chemical processes and so on..
I can't deny that it is part of the NDE course of.
I beleive we'd be built like that for a cause, and almost all acounts report the identical expertise.
The exercise that is going on could be just the tool that makes it physically potential to interpret the spiritual expertise by way of the mind,
so that it maybe could possibly be remembered by the particular person when aware again.
I also would beleive that the human spirit can be working hand in hand with the bodily mind, for the brain interprets what we observe to the soul and understand in our bodily world.
three.7 / 5 (three) Apr eleven, 2010
The activity that is happening might be just the device that makes it bodily attainable to interpret the religious experience through the mind, so that it perhaps may very well be remembered by the person when conscious again.
Besides that there isn't any spirit, no soul, due to this fact the non secular expertise as you call it has to be one thing else.
I also would beleive that the human spirit could be working hand in hand with the bodily brain, for the brain interprets what we observe to the soul
The mind interprets this stuff to itself. There isn't a different mechanism at work between the senses, the brain, and the body. A soul isn't wanted to explain how we operate.
The parable does serve to lessen our terror of demise, and the concept has been exploited to govern us, to have us undergo and die in support of civilization. THAT is probably the most compelling reason that the myth of the soul persists. What you consider, what you want so desperately to be actual, will not be what IS real. You've got been duped
I beleive we'd be built like that for a motive
We're 'built' the way in which we're to be appropriate with a completely bodily and ever-changing world.
and practically all acounts report the same expertise.
The article presents a physiological rationalization for this. The human animal percieves dying as one other barrier and like several animal it seeks to escape confinement at all prices. Animals can't foresee their deaths. "God places eternity in the hearts of men."Ecc3. We see those round us develop feeble and die, and logic tells us it can occur to us and the folks we love. This insufferable reality and the pain it evokes offers rise to the idea of eternal life, and the hope that it is reality lies someplace within the unproven and unprovable. Each scientific discovery threatens this safe place, the mysterious religious abode. We won't stand the thought that we are going to just 'finish'.
5 / 5 (2) Apr eleven, 2010
I went to Mass for Easter. Of course the theme of this vacation is victory over dying, but I was stunned at how usually it was talked about all through the service. "For god so beloved the world..." that he would promise the individuals upon it just about anything, to be able to put it aside from them.
4 / 5 (1) Apr 12, 2010
I went to Mass for Easter.
You appear to be fairly obsessed along with your enemy. You understand how dangerous this would possibly grow to be, I suppose.
1 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2010
The examine is would not prove something. I skilled a NDE resulting from massive blood loss following the botched delivery of my baby. I misplaced all of my own blood and was given 47 models of blood during my ordeal. I went without ample blood circulation for the 1st four hours and had diminished levels of CO2 not elevated ranges as the research stories. I used to be in a coma for three days and was not expected to dwell. I didn't expertise flashing lights and peace and joy during my NDE. Whereas I used to be in a coma it was decided that I might be allowed to dwell. I was shown my husband who was kneeling and crying and was told to inform him that I used to be going to be okay and not to cry anymore. Once I wakened my husband instructed me that he had felt my presence in the room which was throughout the street from the hospital. He informed me that when he was on his knees he felt something cross through him and that I had told him that every little thing was going to be okay that I was going to reside. I then shared my NDE with him.
5 / 5 (1) Apr 12, 2010
Anecdotal proof and religious begging. That is great science, individuals. I particularly like how I pointed out that recollections are malleable, so just a few individuals then use anecdotes that could simply be explained by malleable reminiscence to show there is some form of "human spirit".
Go away and pray, leave science as much as people that are serious about it.
2 / 5 (2) Apr 12, 2010
oh there may very properly be something after life...but that would be your body's electrical current grounding out, and thats probably just about it from that perspective. call it a soul if you want...
the idea of a blissful place, or a spot with 70 virgins, or a place where you wait to be put back into the game of life...IMO, all bs...simply something to make you not kill your self when life will get arduous...
5 / 5 (1) Apr 12, 2010
I went to Mass for Easter. After all the theme of this holiday is victory over death, but I used to be shocked at how often it was talked about all through the service. "For god so beloved the world..." that he would promise the people upon it absolutely anything, with the intention to put it aside from them.
Seeing as the Christian church sees delivery as entrance into a lifetime of sin and penance I would not doubt that their message is as such. If God actually beloved the world perhaps he wouldn't have booted his creation from the garden for fulfilling the characteristics he deemed necessary to grant us.
Current Christianity is about as removed from their "prophet's" teachings as they can be.
not rated but Apr 12, 2010
I wonder if this has any relation to the bursts of DMT(Dimethyltryptamine) in the brain during a NDE and when you are born.
not rated yet Apr 12, 2010
a place where you wait to be put again into the game of life...IMO, all bs...
come on, somewhat little bit of vision - today we are replacing the guts, tomorrow the eye, and someday the organic brain with all its particular person traits simply in time by some shiny hardware. Nostalgicians can have their unit encapsuled in an old school human physique but the pragmatists simply need to get rid of that upkeep overhead.
5 / 5 (2) Apr 16, 2010
I went to Mass for Easter.
You appear to be quite obsessed together with your enemy. You know the way dangerous this might become, I suppose.
"Know thine enemy." My family is religious. I additionally went to see the dragons film. I believed the movie was more uplifting. So what?
Loss of life will come to all of us... not just to scientists.
Liar!
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